roxy | Late night musings

Late night musings

Or just shit that pops up in my brain.

Lately I've been reading/skimming stories, J2s, in which the main characters (Jensen or Jared because, y'know, J2) are raving assholes. Like, really unlikable jerks. But it seems the writer doesn't *get* that they're jerks. They have J or J meet J or J, treat the other like shit but the J is all, "oh, he's just kind of pushy/arrogant/misunderstood"--pick one, and then drapes himself all over the landscape singing the many praises of their one true love. And everyone around them is all amazed and overcome with how beautiful their love is.

I don't get it. Can these writers really not see the character they've written is a *terrible* person? I can see falling in love with a character but don't gloss over the fact that they're assholes or bordeline abusive. I've written those characters and loved them but they were nightmares you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy and the other characters knew it. None of the stories that make my eyes bleed belong to anyone on my friends list and don't ask. Mostly because I don't remember who or where. I just have this habit of scrolling through summaries and asking myself, "Could it be as bad as I imagine? NAAAAAH, no way."

Oy. Way. So much way.

th__000godzilla by gifmaster500

Could one of you write me a note to give to the job and explain that I can't be working five days a week all day because I've got stuff that needs writing? And if you can work in something about how I deserve a raise and possibly one of those nifty red sweatshirts with the logo on that'd be cool. Thanks!

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Hee! I'm glad I checked my email before trudging off to bed with my book because you just made everything better with your post about terrible writing and terrible roxy-not-being-allowed-to-express-herself-creatively-ness. Uh, yeah, so thanks for that! I feel your pain with regard to the quality of characterization (or lack thereof) in J2, which is likely why I rarely read it. Same with SpN fics in general, or at least what I've been unlucky enough to stumble upon. Seems like the few times I do feel the urge for a new SpN adventure, what I find is--uh, just NOT. Mostly, I just don't try anymore. :/

So, that became sad again when I started out happy because my roxy had posted. Waugh. Goodnght, Snuggles! Sorry ficcers suck for you. . .

. . . you know what I mean.

I think, between me and you, we're seeing the twilight of SpN fandom. It's a huge fandom so it doesn't look like it's fossilizing but yeah. Been there with SV, already gone through that slow, downward slide in terms of amounts and quality of posting. A lot of stuff is being written lately by folks who seem like they're only using other fic as source material, or only the kink meme. There's some godawful characterization out there, lovey. That's why I'm reading more J2 than SpN these days. Jared and Jensen, I don't know who the fuck they are. Who knows what they're like? So, any reading of them is a-okay with me!

ficcers suck for me--heheheheheee! (is twelve)

Oh, shit, you have no idea how glad I am to realize that it's not just me who thinks that. It astounds me how often that happens with J2 fic and it's really kind of scary. It... well... it makes me wonder what kind of basis for comparison some of these people have; what's happened to them (or is happening to them) that they consider that kind of behavior so "normal" that it never occurs to them how unbelievably fucked up it is. I've always hesitated to say anything much about it because I am aware that I can be highly critical, so I just blame it on me being me sometimes. The thing is that, upon serious reflection, I can honestly say that most of the time in such cases it isn't me; it's the story itself.

It's not just J2 it happens with though, I see it H50 fandom sometimes--though rarely because that fandom thrives on the most assinine of fluff--and it's WHOA levels of WTFF?! to me. Example: Read part of a fic last night because it was hawked as darkfic, but the thing that got me was that Character A was a complete psychopath and a serial rapist. Yet, the author kept insisting that he was madly in love with Character B and so on. Um, no. Psychopaths don't get the warm fuzzies and he really was a psychopath. I would've been fine with that bit of it (and even the serial rapist part, although rape makes me squirm, if the "logic" behind why Character A was doing so wasn't so convoluted and/or contrived) but what got me was what you're talking about: It was obvious the author was unaware of what she was doing. To her, everything was a-okay and coming up roses. Nuh-uh, I beg to differ.

That kind of thing is just one more reason I rarely read fic anymore--the writing isn't bad (sometimes, but sometimes it's a nightmare unto itself) but the characters/characterizations are horrible (and a little scary-sad). Another thing I've noticed--and this one may just be me--is that almost any story with JDM in it, he's a complete creeper of a sonofabitch and that does not compute. JDM (like the other two Js) seems like such a sweet, lovely man all around that it boggles me.

I wish I could write you a note m'dear, but I fear no one would take me seriously. Only thing working in my favor is I have nice penmanship. I say you politely demand a sweatshirt though. Everyone deserves at least one red sweatshirt. I'm sure there's a law somewhere that stipulates that.

No, no, it's not just you and it makes me worried that these people actually think these are romantic relationships and that makes me fear for their personal lives. Do they live like this, are they being roughed up and disrespected and coerced into physical relationships that they don't really want and are made to feel guilty about not wanting? Because that's what they're writing. It's pretty damn creepy and not all of them are badly written fics either. And yes, what the hell about making JDM a dick all the time? He is a sweet guy, and so's Tom Welling but they make him an asshole when they shoehorn the poor guy into a fic.

I got a red polo shirt instead, with the Targey logo. I'm a team player, godamnit. *shakes little teamplayer fist*

Yes, yes and yes! I quit reading J2 (save one I read quite recently; Jared was a dragon, so my curiosity overwhelmed my nervous tic and it was all good in the end, thankfully) because of that stuff. It was getting to a point where I was restraining myself from commenting on fics of that ilk and asking, "Why do you feel like this behavior is okay?" because it was just too much.

I stopped reading regularly after a rather good fic that ended with Jared being a surprise!bottom (which is NO levels of NONONO for me) and JDM being the creepy surprise!villain. Also, the ultimate explanation for it was complete crap and pissed me off, too. Way to drop the ball and do... all manner of weird, rapey and abusive things in the last chapter. I quit altogether for years--about 2 or 3, I think--after a completely FUBAR mess where Jared was a violently sinister creep of a guy that was all about stalking Jenny and being, well, a rapist fuck about the whole thing. But of course Jensen fell stupidly in love with him and um... Huh?

One of the snippets I read for the BB thing this year promises to be about like that, Jared's a jerk who treats Jensen like a piece of meat and Jensen loves him for it. Oh, so wrong, kids; that kind of behavior is never okay. It makes me so sad and weirds me the fuck out, tbh, because I am Sensitive Sister like that. Lol.

Idk as much about Tom as I do JDM, but way back in the day when I watched SV, it seems like a lot of fans were under the impression the poor guy was a total jerk-off. He really always struck me as shy and well, also not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but I never thought he was a dick. Seemed pretty nice to me, if a bit confused at times as to how he got... wherever. JDM is just a big old squishy though, seems like the happiest, friendliest, most chivalrous (sometimes to his own detriment from what I've read--trying to save maidens in distress and whatnot) guy ever. It makes me want to write J2 with JDM as the cheerful, bonged-out uncle type and Tom as the sweet, if a bit slow on the uptake, next door neighbor that collects lawn gnomes. Idfk. DON'T JUDGE ME. :P

*fist bump* YEA! You now has polo shirt of teamplayerness! Woot!

It makes me want to write J2 with JDM as the cheerful, bonged-out uncle type and Tom as the sweet, if a bit slow on the uptake, next door neighbor that collects lawn gnomes.

Randomly butting in to say I would totally read that fic! :)

Sweet! If I had an actual idea--aside from the above--I'd totally write a short little something for y'all then. There needs to be more Tom-is-clueless-and-collects-lawn-gnomes fics out there. *nods* :D

LOL!!!

I would be right there reading that fic!! Oh Thomas, you're still my sweetheart! :)

:D :D

I wish he made movies now or would do another TV show. I really miss his pretty, pretty face.

I'd totally write that fic if I had an idea past Tom showing the Js his newest gnome (Gertrude) while "Uncle" Jeff was conked out on their sofa with chili on his shirt and tell-tale patches of cotton candy stuck in his beard. Tom could think he'd make a great gnome, what with the smileyness and beardyness and try to mold one in his likeness out of Play Dough or something. Of course the rain would kill gnome!Jeff and Tom would be distraught... Oh, look, I just found the angst factor. LOL

LOL!!!! Poor Thomas and his melted gnome--oooh the ANGST!!!!

His heart would be BROKEN and he would CRY! And since he's clueless, be utterly convinced that gnome!Jeff's untimely demise meant that real!Jeff was also melted by the rain.

Jared: "Ah, yeah, Tom, he's a sweet guy and all, but he's not made out of sugar. Calm down."

Tom: "Then why does he smell like cotton candy?!" *wail*

Jensen: "I'll get the bag for him to breathe into."

Tom: "I'm a murderer."

Jared: "No. You're a... you're... Well, you're not a murderer." *looking on the bright side*

Tom: "I need hugs."

Etc. SO ANGSTY. Amirite?

You can't see me but I'm sobbing brokenheartedly into a silk hankie embroidered with little gnomes. So sad!

*clings* I know! It is so unbelievably woeful that I need Prozac after writing it. Let us cry together at our most emo!

I need a hankie like that.

But then, lo, JDM emerges from the walk-in pantry with a can of ravioli. "Hey, Tom, why so sad?"

"Because I killed you!"

"No way, man, I'd totally know if I croaked and I am lively!"

"No, you're a ghost!"

Jared: *pat-pat* "Tom, calm down. He's totally fine."

JDM: "Whoa, dude, heavy. Did not know I was a ghost. Least the afterlife has Chef Boyardee though." *grins and is pleased about this*

Tom: "Can I have Spaghetti Os?" *distracted from his woe*

JDM: "Sure, dude, there's a can in their pantry. We can share."

Tom: "I love you, big-alive gnome Jeffrey! When we're done eating, we can color with crayons, right?"

JDM: "Sure." *unaware that he has just curbed a serious angst fest, but totally on board with coloring--it's soothing and the colors are colorful* "When we're done with that, I'll roll us a doob and we can toke up."

Tom: *not sure what a doob or a toke is, but...* "Okay, gnome Jeff!"

Jared: *eyes feeling a bit crossed* "I don't even know what's going on anymore."

Jensen: *paper bag at last in hand* "Me either. Um. But at least he stopped crying." *also looking on the bright side*

AWWWWW!! Big, happy...ending, kinda, thingy, sort of...thing. :D

*\o/* It's bee-yoo-tee-full, no? LOL

That was fun, glad you got a kick out of Thomas. :D

Dear job peeples;
Pleez give Roxy more monies and less work cuz she is awesome and work sux.
Sincerely
peeps who don't pay her salary

HAHAHAA!!!

I believe that with this note, they'll understand perfectly! Thanks!! ;)

Dear Sir/Madam/Shim,
Ms Roxy needs to write slash...
That is all....
Ohhh while u are giving her free time...chuck in a vivid red T shirt with this on it.....

photo tumblr_m88vkmKBaP1rxdxkxo1_500.gif

Yours sincerely,
Me

Oh, well, *good morning*!!
:)

*cries laughing*!!!

That gif is hypnotic.

Bah. I haven't found *those* fics - or at least, not a *lot* of those fics. But i know what you mean. I *have* stumbled across some Show fics wherein Sam is so unbelievably obnoxious and Dean-hating (and Dean such a long-suffering saint) that I want to hit people. Just...wtf, people, what show are *you* watching?

(The I-hate-spoiled-rotten-Sammy Show, i guess....) (Or the Dean-is-Perfect-and-can-do-no-wrong Show)

Dear Target Sir and/or Madam:

Ms Thang ain't got no time for that!

Sincerely -
The Brain Twin

*smooches you*

I think that these stories are written by folks who really think that the terrible person is just cocky and kind of cute, y'know? That they really *don't* get their character is coercive or border-line abusive. It's almost kind of worrisome. And I *hate* stories in which one brother hates the other. They've treated each other like crap on occasion and said some nasty things to each other but they've never hated one another, that much is obvious if you actually watch the show for cryin' out loud. I've read posts in the past where folks are shocked and flounce-hurt that the boys--gasp--hit each other. Umm...guys tend to be pretty physical. They hit each other for fun, let alone to make a point.

I'm printing out your note and taking it to work because it is a thing of beauty, and wow, so perfectly Fam!! :D and ♥

Edited 2013-03-07 13:23 (UTC)

Man, *all* of this. I *have* read a few stories - j2, avengers, BtVS - where the level of douchery and asshattedness is really unsettling. It makes me sad, really. Especially when that behavior goes beyond the main pairing and on into the so-called 'friends' who all seem oblivious, or supportive of the asshole, or just as dickish themselves.

And yes - Sam and Dean not loving each other like breathing? Wrong, wrong, so very *wrong*.

Whooo! That'll learn 'em to fuck with you, Miss Roxy. They gotta know you have more important things to be doing!

*smooches*

DImeliora a lowly grad student releases Roxymissrose from work for the dates of 3-7-13 to 3-13-13 due to severe brain exhaustion. This patient is under my care for this time, as she has suffered at the hands of masochistic trope writers.

Also, I've read a couple of asshole J2, but they always seem to know they're assholes. Then again...they were tagged asshole!J so, maybe it's a movement.

I had a guy friend ask me in high school why girls always choose assholes, and I told him it's because when we're young and idealistic we apply our maternal hormones to relationships. We want to care for them and change them. Then we get older, and weary, and aware of the fact that if we want a kid we should just have one instead of dating one. So, if I had to make a bet, I'd say these authors are probably young. Or abused housewives...

Strangely, they didn't go for my note. But I did get a lovely red Targey polo shirt, so now, I look sporty and crisp as I hide from customers wanting stupid things.

Now, I don't mind asshole Js if they're *meant* to be assholes. And assholes can be attractive, if you know they're assholes and the AHs know you know. Then it's kind of a game. But I should have properly said 'abusive assholes', a whole 'nother animal. These fics aren't tagged assholes because the writer doesn't get that they've written a truly unattractive human being. And yeah, I think they're very young. Or terminally stupid.

I'm a big fan of MST3K. I don't suppose you could link to one of these could you?

It's been a while since I've read anything by an author I don't know well. I barely have time to read fic anymore anyway, so I'm definitely not going to mess with something that's bad. And if you've been in fandom any time at all, you can tell just how bad it's going to be from the summary, can't you?

The worst J2 story I ever read was one that I recorded a podfic of by request of someone else—this awful thing where Jensen was blinded in an on-set accident and consequently went full-on woobie—ye gods, it was awful. The really astounding thing was that it had a TON of comments. I could barely read the ridiculous overblown dialogue without laughing, much less with a straight face, which is kind of problem when you're reading out loud. Between that one and another podfic I did for a charity auction, I learned my lesson about trying to podfic stories I didn't absolutely love. But that's kind of off the subject.

That gif is...yeah. Wow.

Oh lord woman, you are a *saint*. Where does this characterization of Jensen as a big old girl come from? The tears and the woe-is-mir and just...too much! I love a good old-fashioned H/C story as well as the next person but it shouldn't be me who's hurting and screaming for comfort.

*sigh* Is all my own fault. I will insist on clinking on links that make me go, "Whaaaa--hunh?" Sometimes it pays off big and sometimes, it's eyebleach time.

That gif is overwhelming...yeah. *blink*

LOL, this made me laugh. I think I listened to that podfic of yours and I think I may've judged you for recording it!

I take it all back now and humbly beg your forgiveness.

Ha, yeah, probably the same one. That was back in my early days when I didn't know any better. I've had too many people tell me that my selection of stories to record is as good as a rec from me to do that anymore. It's worse than writing to a prompt you're not really feeling; at least with writing you have some latitude. There's no fixing badfic.

Aww, I kind of love asshole!J2 and I've definitely written them that way I know! But I have always tried to label it when I do.

I like it because I really like flawed and fucked-up characters who don't always do the right thing, especially in romantic relationships when emotions run so high and you can't act rationally or be the better person. I just find that really interesting to explore and write about because I've been there, I've been that hurt person who's lashed out and acted like an asshole and been really really petty and selfish when my heart's been broken or I've had a huge fight with my partner or whatever. IDK, I just find it quite realistic.

I totally agree with you and the people in the comments about woobification and Saint Jensen/Dean. Dean is so not a saint because if he was, he'd be totally boring and we wouldn't love him so much ;-)

I *love* asshole J2 and I completely agree with you why they're interesting!

What I mean here is when they're--*assholes*. I mean terrible, abusive people who are being presented as being funloving, cocky and maybe a tad pushy but for the other character's good. What *you're* talking about I love, in the hands of a good writer. *eyeballs you with fondness*

This post was brought on by a story I read in which Jared pretty much assaults Jensen and makes it seem like a good thing, intrudes in his life in a stalkerish way, has an affair with Jensen that sort of came up out of the blue because Jensen insists that he loves the boyfriend he's living with but wait, it's okay because his boyfriend is having an affair, oh wait, no he isn't and drops Jensen when he finds out about the affair. But that's okay too, because it turns out Jensen likes being treated like shit. Or so I'm led to believe by the progression of this thing....

I blame myself. I will insist on clicking on things I know can only be clunkers. I'm a reading masochist. :)

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Late night musings

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