grumpy old bear

[roxy]

You know, young fandom, we have perfectly good ways to indicate that in the featured story, there will be no sex of the boy-on-boy kind. No need to explain that your story doesn't contain slash, no need to make it part of the title. When you have a pairing you use the /. No need to spell it out. Just, Sam/Dean will do. Or Sam & Dean. The & lets us know that this is not an AU of the sexin' brothers kind. (Because if the Winchesters are having sex of any kind with each other, that automatically throws your story into an alternate universe, no matter how close you stick to canon outside of that.) Also, believe it or not, SpN has a *very* healthy gen component, with very well respected and ass-kicking writers. Not writing slash is not a bold move into areas heretofore uncovered, little ones.

While I'm bitching, here's another thing what pisses me off--learn to correctly use cuts, use headers for god's sake--word count would be nice--and stop telling us how shitty your story is, do you really think I want to read it if it's that much a pile of crap? Save the chatty intros for your LJ. Also for cryin' out loud, being new to a fandom is no excuse for misspellings and gross murder of grammar. I'm not on top of it all the time either but I try to listen and remember when I get corrected. My god, make your damn story readable! It's not enough to have a great idea if it sounds like it was written by your 12 year old sister under the influence of too many Skittles.

I'm going to crawl back in my cave now, and just for fun I'm going to kick Boo-Boo's ass. GROWL!!!

*snatches your pik-i-nick basket*

Comments

[danceswithgary]

A wrong-side-of-the-bed day? I'm having a lot of them lately, especially since I share your pain on several of the points you just raised.

*hugs you with a smile*

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Waaaahh! I think I'm having a wrong side of the BRAIN day, lol!

I'm going to bed, and not thinking about anything but fluffy bunnies.

*CLINGS*

[rosy5000.livejournal.com]

Hey Roxy, tell us how you really feel? *g*

But yeah, I agree with you 100% on everything you said.

Snatching pik-i-nick baskets sounds like fun, can I come with you?

*hugs and snuggles* ♥

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Come with me! We'll snatch a blanket too, and have a lovely lunch. We'll have to be prepared to sprint at a moment's notice, though....

[myownghost.livejournal.com]

"Make your damn story readable" is excellent advice for any of us who write, new or experienced! From one bear to another, I say WOOF.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

I know I've skirted the edge of that pretty frequently. :(

Why is it that when I reread an old story, I just see all the mistakes????

[myownghost.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think that's perfectionism coming into play. Believe me, your readers are getting a DAMN fine read. Any mistakes you may see are just little flaws that your readers won't care about at all!

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything except word count. I can't quite wrap my head around big numbers; it's not concrete enough for me. I need something I can actually count (like pages, which I know aren't standardized enough for internet use).

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

If you take the word count and divide it by 500, it'll be pretty close to a page count.

I don't always do word counts, but it does put me off when a story is extremely short and there's no indication of that. Especially if the header is really interesting.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

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<iIf you take the word count and divide it by 500, it'll be pretty close to a page count.></i>

Ah! Good to know!

Word counts let me know if I have time to read a story before running off to work--I hate to leave in the middle of a fic!

[bradygirl_12]

Oh, darling, you are SO RIGHT!!!

And, please, people, when you write Kirk/Spock, stop with the Spirk and Spork and whatever-the-hell-else cutesy-pie smishing of names!

Yum, pic-a-nic baskets! Smarter than the average bear! ;)

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

But smishing names together is a tradition! Clex! Destial! Clitney! (though I've promised to cease and desist with that particular smish.) Hah! I promise, I will never Spirk or Spork you. :)

Heck yeah, us bears are smarter! *ggg*

[bradygirl_12]

*grins*

The only smishing that sounds right to me is Clex and Clois. The rest sound painfully cobbled together. And I have a thing about Kirk/Spock since they're the original slash couple. :)

[rockstarpeach.livejournal.com]

Actually, I find it quite helpful when people warn me in advance that something is terrible. Then I know not to waste my time reading it :)

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

LOL!!! So, it's their version of a PSA?

[bt-kady.livejournal.com]

I agree with you, hon! My biggest complaint is when people post their fic too soon, before they take the time and effort to make sure it's in the best shape it can be. That means PROOFREADING AND USING A BETA!!! I can understand being excited and wanting to share your fic, but geez! Make it readable! Use spell check, and try to get punctuation right. Maybe I'm being too nit-picky, but even stuff like that can yank me out of a story, even if the plot is a good one. The better a fic reads, the more positive reviews you can get, and that's what you want, right?

/end rant.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

The better a fic reads, the more positive reviews you can get, and that's what you want, right?

It really is disheartening when you post something and the reviews concentrate the errors in the story, instead of the fic itself, for sure.

I know that no matter how many times you edit your own story, when you go to post, there will always be things missed. I do tend to be impatient though, so yeah, I don't go for beta very often, hence a lot of after the fact editing. But my friends are good and point stuff out in a very kind way, so that when I do post to a comm, most of the bad stuff has been ironed out.

[bt-kady.livejournal.com]

I'm lucky in that I have some amazing betas at hand, and they are invaluable. I realize not everyone has that, or even wants it, which is why taking time to reread fic before you post it is always a good idea. Like you said, every time you go over it, you find something new that needs to be fixed.

I, too, am impatient to share my own stuff, so I really ought to be the last one pointing fingers. I never do it until it's gone over multiple times, and had at least one friend read it and catch what I missed.

[quiet--tiger.livejournal.com]

Love it! This is an awesome summary post of Why-You-Just-Convinced-Me-Not-To-Click-On-Your-Story-Thanks. Why on earth do people fill their headers with reasons we shouldn't read the story?

I personally don't understand why people announce they're new to the fandom. I've always preferred the "look like you belong here" approach. I also have zero problem with people not having a beta--a lot of great fandom writers don't seem to use them--but I get turned off when the lack of one is put into a warning.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

. I've always preferred the "look like you belong here" approach.

Right? Proclaiming you're new seems to be asking to be handled with kid gloves and that seems to indicate that maybe the story is less than. Outside of my own journal, my headers are pretty matter of fact--I save the chatty, goofy stuff for my LJ.

[tabaqui]

HA!
Omg. Yes to all, and c'mon over here, bb, I got a cuddly throw, a stack of Show dvds and all the cake you could want.
*smishes you*

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

YAY!!!! *shnuggles*

[portraitofafool.livejournal.com]

What you said and about 50,000 other things. The only thing I don't care about is word count; I don't use them due to personal preference (and my tendency to tinker endlessly, therefore making any word count I may post null and void anyway). I don't/won't read drabbles or what I call "drabblish (between 250-1,000 words) unless I really know the author well. Anything that short and sorry, but to me that is not a story; that's a glorified outline if it's 500-1k words long and anything shorter... that's just a plot bunny that never reached fruition and yet... the desire to share it was still there. These are, of course, only my opinions on the matter and I have written drabbles before just to see if I could do it (because I can go on for days when I get taken up with an idea). As for betas... a lot of the time I can't see where they do one damned bit of good. I really, really don't. I may find a story claiming to've used 3 different betas and yet... there are still grammar/punctuation/spelling errors galore and plot holes big enough you could fit the Grand Canyon in them three times over and still have room to spare.

What I mean to say is: I am hopelessly, ridiculously nitpicky about what I read and I still agree with damned near everything you just said.

I also want to know what you found in the pic-a-nic basket you stole. Easter candy? Any coconut nests? I need some of those. I may or may not be trying to hit you up for your imaginary candy now. *koff* /e-mooch

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

As for betas... a lot of the time I can't see where they do one damned bit of good. I really, really don't. I may find a story claiming to've used 3 different betas and yet... there are still grammar/punctuation/spelling errors galore and plot holes big enough you could fit the Grand Canyon in them three times over and still have room to spare.

I think that folks confuse having an 'audience' to your fic and having a beta. Just because your friends read it and loved it and pointed out a mistake or two, doesn't mean it you had it betaed. I've had stories betaed and not and while I admit that the betaed versions were always really good, I don't have the patience to wait.

Please to be having a handsome assortment of imaginary candies! :)

[bellona-rpg.livejournal.com]

+1 on all that! You've described some of my biggest irritants re fanfiction.

A writer can have the best idea in the world, but if the grammar and spelling are bad, then it throws me right out of the story. On a few occasions I've simply stopped reading.

And then there are the stories where it looks as though someone used a thesaurus without understanding the nuances of the differences between words. And stories which are quite obviously written by someone who is more used to another language (e.g., odd capitalizations and sentence structure) - which isn't to say that some non-native speakers of English can't write really well. Misplaced/anachronistic speech patterns. And writers who don't pay attention to the details of common phrases, thus getting them wrong/inadvertantly reversing the meaning. (A common example: "I could care less" is incorrect. It should be "I couldn't care less").

Betas ... can be used for different purposes. Some help with the story ideas, characterization, etc., others help with spelling, grammar, style, etc. A gifted beta can do both and cheerlead/encourage to boot. By the laws of averages, some betas are probably not as good as others. It must also be frustrating when a writer ignores the good advice given by her betas.

And I could go on ... but I think that I try to stop here (note: not "try and stop"). :)

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

And writers who don't pay attention to the details of common phrases, thus getting them wrong/inadvertantly reversing the meaning. (A common example: "I could care less" is incorrect. It should be "I couldn't care less").

Ach! see that right there--I'm guilty of that! I try to check any phrase that's common usage because I know how spelling and usage can migrate. Things we hear everyday and never see written can be a problem as well.

English as a second language presents a whole different set of expectations. I appreciate being 'warned' for that because then I know that I've got to have different expectations when I'm reading.

[altimeterrise.livejournal.com]

Lol, the shoddy fanfic rant - how I have been there, let me count the ways. I used to get really cut up about this kind of stuff and do my "Godzilla-Tokyo-Smash!!" impression...but. The only thing I'm really still militant about is the warnings. Fanfic contains all the glaring eyesores of poor writing/organization/labeling that you mentioned and more, no doubt about it. And while these things look like obvious, easy fixes when you're reading them, they cumulatively add up to a large amount of base writing knowledge and added effort for the writer.

I have a huge leg up when it comes to writing polished, coherent stories in English: I've been haunting libraries since preschool, I've taken college English courses, and I'm a native speaker. But despite all the times I've been disappointed by the lack of polish in someone else's story, I've come to realize from my own struggles with cobbling together fanfic in my spare time that fandom is neither a credited class nor a professional writing forum. What distinguishes fanfic as a creative community is the emphasis on collaboration and sharing over professionalism.

When you're coming off the proverbial fic "written by a thirteen-year-old on a sugar high" this seems like a really suck-ass quality for fandom to have. But then I look back at my own work, and see all the crap I *KNOW* is wrong, rushed, awkward, illogical, that I would like to fix, but probably never will because hey, this isn't my day job, and I realize that if I waited until it was polished up to a pro-level, I'd probably never write or post it in the first place. As painful as it can be for the reader, I think fanfic does a better job of just encouraging people to *WRITE*, to participate in the worldwide (well, internet-wide, anyway) creative commons.

That said, as reader I only have so much time, energy, and patience to devote to reading other people's flawed writing - hence my still being a warnings nazi. That way, if I'm feeling generous I can give writer X's unbetaed, grammar-addled, OOC, soap opera wannabe a try, and if I don't, I only wasted 10 seconds reading the warnings.

As a final note, my intention here is not to make you feel bad about wanting to claw your eyes out from the fanfic eyesores - just sharing a different perspective, is all. So next time you want reach through the internet and stab the author in the face (not that I've *ever* wanted to do that - *coughs*), you can take a deep breath and repeat to yourself, "I'm encouraging the growth of the creative commons, I'm encouraging the growth of the creative commons." ;D

[bt-kady.livejournal.com]

You have a very good point, and it's one I need to remind myself of whenever I read something that is riddled with mistakes: At least the writer wrote something. A lot of people have the desire to, but never do, because they don't think they're good enough. Maybe they aren't, but one never knows unless you try.

Writing takes practice. When I look back at what I wrote years ago and compare it to what I'm able to produce now, there's a huge difference. Some of that comes from maturity, some comes from continued work at it, and some comes from good betas who catch what you're weak at. Becoming a good writer takes time and effort, and being willing to share your work with others who can give you honest critiques. It also takes willingness to listen to those critiques and learn from them, all the while maintaining your own voice and originality.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

stop telling us how shitty your story is, do you really think I want to read it if it's that much a pile of crap?

LOL I know, whenever anyone posts something about how their fic or video is not very good I just take their word for it and don't read it.