COMPLAINING and a rec!

[roxy]

I'm sorry, but this using a / to indicate a gen relationship really irritates the hell out of me. I'm a SLASH reader and a SLASH writer and more specifically a WINCEST reader and writer. That's my main interest, and when I click on a story that has Sam/Dean in the headline, I expect some form of slash. I don't necessarily need out and out sex--though that's more than nice, but it pisses me off when it turns out to be a completely, *totally* gen story, or worse, a het story. Nothing wrong with either, just not when I'm expecting guy love. When I want to read gen, I read gen. Much, much more rarely, I'll read het. I just like to know what it is I'm reading.

I know that these folks aren't posting like that intending to misrepresent, I think that they just don't get that there's a difference. We've talked about this a few times here. Is it not the same other fandom places? Is it only LJ anymore that adheres to the slash meaning a M/M relationship?

*throws hat down and flings hands up*





Had to get that off my chest. Okay, I bitched, so let me rec a fucking fabulous GEN story. See? I read them sometimes. Are you wondering where Sam's at, what's going on under that massive forehead? This fic explains it all. It's chilling, heartbreaking, *scary* as fuck and just plain amazing. I really liked it.

Stapled Shut, Inside an Outside World bycaranfindel

Comments

[rockstarpeach.livejournal.com]

Right?

I mean... if you write a story in which Dean has a relationship with Lisa, or Sam has one with Crowley (which are both perfectly fine!) and then go label it as Sam/Dean, just because it has Sam and Dean in it, that's totally misleading!

Heh, so that's what I'm gonna do. And then laugh when you read it and you're all 'dude, wtf was that bullshit?!'.

I know that in a lot of fandoms (not just LJ-based) slash means m/m relationship. Others have slash as ANY relationship (which really makes more sense). In any case, you can't use '/' when you really mean 'n'.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

*eyeballs you, and loftily ignores your misbehavior*

I agree that '/ ' actually indicates any relationship that has a romantic or physical component to it--it could be Sam/Amelia, horrible as that idea is, and I'd know that they were touching naughty bits, hopefully offstage. And yes, damn it, the 'n' is a perfect heads up to let us know "in this story, the brothers are slightly less dysfunctional."

[firesign10.livejournal.com]

Hahahaha you have a rec icon!!!! <3

I always think the slash means slash. I mean, I have seen "boy/girl", so the line is just "they are together and smexing". If I saw "Sam/Dean", I would TOTALLY take that to mean there's wincesty boning going on. If I see "Sam, Dean", then I expect gen.

It ain't rocket science ;-) unless by "rockets" one means "cocks up the ass".


*smishes you*

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

It ain't rocket science ;-) unless by "rockets" one means "cocks up the ass".

HAHAHAHAAA!

[fanspired]

Maybe it's new writers seeing the Sam/Dean convention a lot and copying it without understanding what it means. Direct them to S4:18 :P I think I've had the "huh? where's the slash?" experience myself, though. Very frustrating. The rec sounds interesting, though. Will have to check that out when I've finished my scene. I think it's a pity the show never really properly examined what Sam actually endured in the cage, because I think a lot of viewers have consequently forgotten it ever happened.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think you'll like this a lot. It's a really smart look at what could have happened.

I agree that there should have been some scenes for Sam, and Dean as well, in hell. Dean at least got that one scene with the chains and hooks. Without Sam getting at least one scene like that, I think that people forgot that what Sam went through was pretty horrendous, and that it lasted longer for Sam than for Dean.

[fanspired]

I loved the story. Have to say that at this stage I'd welcome being told that everything that's happened is a hell induced hallucination. Think there's probably be a riot if the show writers actually tried to pull that off, though :P

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's new writers seeing the Sam/Dean convention a lot and copying it without understanding what it means.

I think that's it, lol a couple of months back someone on my flist mentioned that people on tumbler were using the actual 'Wincest' term to talk about their love for the brotherly connection, yet were horrified when they had it pointed out to them that Wincest is a reference to shipping the brothers romantically. Apparently quite a few people on tumbler had just assumed it was the accepted fandom nickname to use for Sam and Dean scenes

[fanspired]

Yeah, I've heard it's so common it's actually _becoming_ the accepted fandom nickname to use for Sam and Dean scenes :S

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Wincest' term to talk about their love for the brotherly connection, yet were horrified when they had it pointed out to them that Wincest is a reference to shipping the brothers romantically.

Man, I'd pay cash money to see those faces...LOL!!

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

First, thanks for the rec; that's completely awesome of you.

Second, I find your problem kind of ironic because, as a mostly gen reader, I keep seeing the opposite - writers who use a comma or n when they really should have used a slash. So it's no easier on the other side! :-) I think, like fanspired said, it's probably people who don't understand the convention.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Oh! Thank goodness you didn't mind--I totally forgot to ask permission first!

You know, I'm beginning to think that AO3, with its plethora of tags and people given to some sort of tag-mania just add to the problem. Most of the funky tags I've been taken in by are there. And I can imagine it's really not much fun, clicking on a what seems like a fascinating gen story only to be broadsided by the slash. I think having a slash story end up gen is a lot less unsettling! :)

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

Well, there's my own personal LJ ignorance, because it never would occur to me to ask if it's okay to rec something! :-/

And yeah, it's a little bit of a jolt to think you're reading gen and then suddenly it gets all bow chicka wow wow. Probably less shocking to finish a story and say hey, where was my slash? ;-) But, you know, there are worse things that can happen. Good slash is better than bad gen.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Well, there's my own personal LJ ignorance, because it never would occur to me to ask if it's okay to rec something! :-/

Ack, no--that's just me, I think! Always worried about offending! :)

[iibnf.livejournal.com]

I saw it used with a whole raft of characters once, including old ladies and children, and pointed it out to the author. She laughed and said, oh dear! But never went back to change it. Can't even remember the fandom, now. Might have been Mrs Hudson and some kids slashed?

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

*blink*

Sounds like the SpN kink meme.

[quiet--tiger.livejournal.com]

What confuses the heck out of me is when people put in the characters/pairing line a character's real identity and his superhero identity, so you wind up with fics with the characters/pairings as: Bruce/Batman, Clark/Superman, Bruce/Clark, and I'm like, "Wow, that's some identity porn," and then I realize that they mean Bruce is both Bruce and Batman, and Clark is Clark and Supes, at different times in the story. When there are two guys in the story and like eight pairings seem to be indicated, it gets overly complicated.

But yeah, a slash mark indicates slash to me. You want gen, use a comma.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Why would they even bother? Is anyone going to be surprised or confused that *SPOILER* Bruce Wayne is Batman? I'll say it gets complicated.

What the hell, can I complain some more? Modern fucking life is getting way complicated!!!!

[quiet--tiger.livejournal.com]

Complain all you need to, this is your forum!! And modern life is insanely complicated. Technology makes it so everything happens at once or is expected to, and people are expected to work full time jobs, manage a house and families, and keep up with said technology, pop culture, social lives, everything in order to live "normal" lives. Everything moves too fast, and has too many people that can't keep up clogging up the works. Maybe things were always this way, but I don't think so.

[nicnac918.livejournal.com]

I'll totally back you up on a '/' between two character names means a romantic or sexual relationship of some sort occurs between two characters, and then I'm rather partial to '&' to signify that a story places a special emphasis on the *platonic* relationship between the characters. Of course occasionally there are issues where a fic is kind of borderline gen (for example: if running through the fic, but tangential to the actual plot, A has a number of thoughts about how (s)he would like to get into B's pants, but by the end no pants were actually gotten into on- or off-stage), but at that point the writer really just has to make a judgement call. And then they should add some sort of tag or disclaimer or something that let's people know it was a judgement call. Throwing in a 'onesided,' 'UST,' or 'pre-slash' are all good options for that.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

I like 'pre-slash' very much for a fic in which feelings are had that aren't acted on. Sometimes I like those stories better than the ones where pants are gotten into. :) ( i like that!)

[bradygirl_12]

*nods*

I have a story that I will be posting soon that is pre-slash. I'll probably label it with "/" to indicate the strong feelings and put in a note explaining that it's very pre-slash, though.

What I don't get is people labeling het fic as slash fic! I guess it's because you can use the slash (Steve/Diana, for example), but that doesn't mean it's slash!

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

You know, reading your comment, I'm nodding along, understanding *perfectly* what you mean, and it hit me: to a newbie, none of what we're talking about makes any sense.

"wait, there's the word slash, means sex, but specifically male male sex. But, "/ " means paring too and not just M/M sex...hunh???"

LOL!

[bradygirl_12]

LOL! True! Fannish lingo can confuse a newbie for sure! And it's a dozen times worse since the Internet. What kind of took its time to wend its way around fandom organically now takes about a millisecond and things change so fast!

Better a "/" symbol than the cutesy-poo names people come up with for ships! Half the time I look at it and say, "Umm, who are they supposed to be?" ;)