oh dear..ramble du jour

[roxy]

SpN really likes the non-con/hooker fic, hunh? And why do so many people make Jensen (the RPS character) into a damaged little monkey? Does he ping you like that? It's so weird, I don't get that at all. I see him being sort of sensitive under all that dickiness, but not delicate. Or romantic. Though I guess I do the same thing with Lex don't I, and lots of folks probably see that as OOC. To me though, Lex *is* delicate. He's like this huge balancing act, a giant teetering stack of behaviors and justifications and lies that let him survive. I absolutely believe that he believes he's doing the right thing, that he's the hero, and other people see him as the villain because they have no vision. Poor little thing...now there's a woobie for you.

I love you Lex Luthor--I want to bear your children!

*whispers* also, I think I'm back for good now...

Comments

[me-ya-ri.livejournal.com]

I do tend to see Lex as a balancing act a lot of the time. Can't really comment on SpN since I don't watch / read that. But Lex, yup, he can be a really messed up puppy, can't he?

*Squee!* Hope it holds up, Roxy!

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Girl! I know! maybe I'll get a chance to finally read the stuff I've been missng--*grins at you*

I think Lex is much more messed up than even most of us write. I like to see him in control more than falling apart...even though I hardly write him that way myself.

[twinsarein.livejournal.com]

I've never seen SpN, so I can't comment on Jensen, but I agree with you about Lex. Certainly how he is from the Smallville canon. He has become a very strong character because of all he has dealt with in his past; but I have always felt like he is very breakable - we are just waiting for the proverbial straw. As you said - a balancing act.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Right--very strong, but a brittle kind of strong. In a way, it's his friendship with Clark that ruins it for him, I think. Clark just accidentally chipped away at the glue holding Lex together. Well, all right, Lionel was there too, taking an axe to the rest of what held Lex together. Poor Lex. He never had a chance. :(

[tzi.livejournal.com]

Well. *grins* I can totally SEE Dean being a damaged little monkey, but, uh. Not delicate or romantic, though. Just. You know. really FUCKED UP.

And yes, on Lex. Actually, there's something... *digs around* Yes! Okay! Lust Over Pendle-verse, which is actually Draco and Neville. There's a man describing Draco, and it's... well.

When he had been no more than ten or so, and still assumed that he would follow his family's proud scientific tradition into academia at one of the older universities - his father claimed a Nobel laureate as a distant cousin, and on his mother's side there were both Haldanes and Rutherfords in the family tree - he had been taken to an exhibition at the Science Museum. There he had been entranced by the delicate models of molecules: not the crude drinking-straw-and-plastic-ball travesties he was used to at school, but entrancingly complex structures crafted of fishing-line, gilt wire and glass beads, each part wholly dependent on the rest. He had, however, known even then that if one were to remove just one glass bead - cut a single wire - then the whole would collapse into irrevocable chaos.

Yes. That's very much what I think about Lex as well. *nods*

But Dean? While I think he's fucked up, I also think that so long as he has hunting, so long as he's got a PURPOSE, his ass will hold together under almost any outside force. Remove the purpose, of course, he'd go a little to the left of okay, but... uh. I don't see Dean anything like sensitive or sweetly romantic. No way ~_^

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Just. You know. really FUCKED UP

Oh heck, yeah. Both of those boys are fucked up--but not weak, you know? Being weak and being fucked up is two different things to me, and there seems to be a certain kind of story that makes him weak, almost spineless. I think he'd have to spend longlonglong time in hell to become weak.

He had, however, known even then that if one were to remove just one glass bead - cut a single wire - then the whole would collapse into irrevocable chaos.

Perfect!

[beet]

Yes! I agree with everything you've said here.
And thank you for saying it.

[dawnybee.livejournal.com]

And why do so many people make Jensen (the RPS character) into a damaged little monkey? Does he ping you like that? It's so weird, I don't get that at all.

Me neither. I see a lot of that in Jsquared fics. I keep seeing mentions of a story where Jensen was bulimic. He’s the Casey to Jared’s Zeke, seemingly.

I love you Lex Luthor--I want to bear your children!

My cousin is lightskinned with a buncha freckles and red hair. Just a warning….

*whispers* also, I think I'm back for good now...

Yippeey!!

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

He’s the Casey to Jared’s Zeke, seemingly

Right? It's like they're watching another show--or reading some hollywood stuff I'm not seeing 'cause what little shit I do see doesn't bear up. I love a good AU just as much as the next girl, and I enjoy a little torture like anyone else--what? But yeesh...I don't know, maybe I should torture Jenssen. It might be fun. ;)

My cousin is lightskinned with a buncha freckles and red hair. Just a warning….

AHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAAA!! *hugs*

[ninasis.livejournal.com]

Girl, SPN adores non-con and hooker fic. Loves. Thankfully most everybody is good for warning for those things, so I can avoid them.

And YES they love to turn Jensen into a damaged little boy, in need of big, strong Jared to come and rescue him. And some of them are amazing stories and manage to still have a recognizable Jared and Jensen, and some of them are utter crap. They also love to make Jared super, super gay or very feminine...which, I don't get that at all. Sometimes it's okay because the story is supposed to be campy and over-the-top, but a lot of times it's just irritating and I can't stand it.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

I know! Really--look at Jared, he's a big old boy. There's not a feminine bone in his body. I did read one story where he was screamingly gay and it was a lot of fun--it's the stories where the characterization slips sideways that bug me. He's not like Thomas, where you can kind of see the little girl lurking in him. *G*

[nataliadarimini.livejournal.com]

Back when I were a wee little Na'lie, I decided to go online and look to see if anyone was saying interesting about Harry Potter. I had never heard of slash before. I had never even heard of fanfiction. I was looking, really, for some Serious News Articles from Responsible Adults.

In addition to the many, many other ways my mind was blown that afternoon, I realized that my perceptions of characters were often vastly different from other people's perceptions. That remains my favorite thing about fandom to this very day. It's like infinite parallel universes with infinite flavors of Dean Winchester of Lex Luthor or *cough* Harry Potter. If one of them should, God forbid, die- well, there's about five thousand more who are willing to comfort me about it.

That said, I really don't get delicate flower Jensen/Dean either. That shit's just odd.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

I decided to go online and look to see if anyone was saying interesting about Harry Potter.

Yes! Yes! Only I was looking for Buffy quotes and pictures and somehow discovered the magic of slash.

And yes, I do like reading the different flavors of Lex, and Clark and Spike and Dean...but I want to read about guys, being *guys*!

If one of them should, God forbid, die- well, there's about five thousand more who are willing to comfort me about it.


hahaha--okay, I never thought about it like that. I like it!

[beet]

Personally, where RPS is concerned, I don't know that I can comment on characterization. It's all once huge ball of self-indulgent projection onto the actor. Because we don't actually know the person, it's as open as you want to make it. That said, no. I still don't get pinged that Jensen is any kind of damaged little monkey. I think the fandom hunger for hurt/comfort drives the trend. I think I've also seen a ton of fic where Jared is injured/broken.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it just seems to me it's more...*broken* than SV was back in the day, remember back when? I don't think the writers then made the boys quite so totally damaged, can't remember any fic that Lex or Clark, no matter how much trouble they were in, didn't have some place in them that was still strong.

I understand about the RPS thing, and the stories are mostly all AU, and we can make the little puppets dance merrily to any tune we want, but after the first bazillion veyistmir fics I thought, wow, who hurt you like this, SpN?

[beet]

Yeah. I agree. I kind of feel like without the boundaries of some kind of canon to base a character on, it can be easy for a story (especially an RPS one) to end up with clunky, two-dimensional characters. You know--characters that revolve around 2 or 3 traits. I think that leads to a little clunky hurt/comfort fic as well. It's a little over-exaggerated. Or at least, I don't feel like there is much depth to the healing/comfort part. Speaking non-specifically. There are, of course, excellent stories out there!

Also, you post made me sad. Why aren't there as many hooker!Lex fic out there ?!! And also, what happened to my other ho!Lex icon?? *suspicious looks!*

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Ah, you made the best Ho!Lex art ever. I was strolling down memory lane not long ago, and really enjoying myself! I should flog a hooker Lex challenge, just because I want to read some, lol!

[beet]

Hah!!! Found it!

[rosy5000.livejournal.com]

Sorry, Roxy... I luvs you and all... but LEX IS MINE!!!!!!!!

MWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

*grins*

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

*POUT*

Mine!!! On Tuesdays and Thursdays?

[rosy5000.livejournal.com]

Hmmmmm.... *ponders*

Yeah, I think we can work with that arrangement. If you're REALLY nice to me... I may even throw in a weekend a month. ;)

[blisstasteful.livejournal.com]

If Jensen is characterised that way I tend to have to stop reading. Romantic I can deal with, but only in a blokey way.

Lex though... I think the first couple seasons showed him as a real little boy lost full of bravado. And I'd agree with your description for the later seasons.

I think sensitive and damaged is right on the nose actually. (also melodramatic, pissy and bitchy)

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

I think sensitive and damaged is right on the nose actually. (also melodramatic, pissy and bitchy)

Oh yes, very much so.

[azrielle-jones.livejournal.com]

Yes. Yes to SPN hooker fanon and yes to your interpretation of Lex. I agree heartily!

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I adore SpN and it's writers are fabulous and prolific but there is *so* much that I think some odd characterization is bound to occur.

Lex...he's just the perfect character, so much to explore!

[lexophilia.livejournal.com]

Lex is so fucked up, he's fucked down.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAAAAAA!!! Perfect!!

[helioshyperion.livejournal.com]

You finally put into words what I have been feeling about Lex this whole time, you amazing woman, you.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Aiie! Thank you! I'm all over blushing here...

[justabi.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, that is totally my Lex. It just stopped being the Lex on SV is all because unlike you their writers couldn't handle actually making him a villain without taking anything, not a drop away from him being a hero.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

their writers couldn't handle actually making him a villain without taking anything, not a drop away from him being a hero.

You know, it's like SV can't decide who its audience is. Even if the show was aimed at the younger teen crowd, in eight years, they've grown. I think they could handle that Lex.

and hugs and shmooches just because. *G*

[norwich36.livejournal.com]

Hee, why do I think I know *exactly* what J2 story you're talking about? (And I loved it to pieces, btw, because it turns out I have a giant love for evil!Jared that is as big as my love for evil!Sam. Which doesn't make any sense, really, because I can't in any rational way think of Jared as evil--he strikes me in interviews as this big happy puppydog of a guy who'd never hurt a fly. So my *guess* is that damagedhooker!Jensen comes from the same place as controllingposessive!Jared: kinkland. And stories coming from that place can sometimes be very good, even if I think they're wildly ooc).

Actually, with J2 or RPS in general it's hard for me to think things are really out of character, since what do we really know about these guys anyway? I used to hate J2 AUs but then I got sucked into them, and now I just think of them as if they're movies or something being cast by all my favorite people on the CW, and mostly the characterization issues have stopped bothering me. Well, except sometimes. I actually do understand the complaints about turning either of them into damaged little monkeys. I don't mind a little h/c, but some J2 authors really go a little too emo for my tastes.

I haven't been reading any SV lately (sorry!!), but in all the stories of yours I have read your Lex never pinged me as being *quite* as overthetop as Jensen is in many J2 stories. Though it does seem that authors like to hurt the characters that they love--I wonder why that is? (Lex of course gets so hurt in canon it makes sense, but when you're working with a total blank slate like RPS AU, I wonder why that's so appealing).

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

lol! I swear, I had no particular fic in mind! And when I talk about Jensen, I really don't mean real life Jensen, of course, just the RPS version. Like you say, he could be anything, right? I've discovered I *HATE* almost any story I've read with the CW boys (read *my boys*) They are so totally OOC it makes my teeth grind. Mikey I can see as an idiot but not as an evil douche. And it's weird reading all these het Thomases. See what I mean about the character not the real person? *G* I most enjoyed Thomas and Mikey in the "summer job at the theater" RPS which totally influenced my Clark's Summer Job story.

I miss you here--I have to keep mentioning SpN just to see your smiling little face....*sigh* When I start posting my SpN, I will *insist* you join me. *pouts*

[norwich36.livejournal.com]

Oh, I completely hear you about the defamation of Tom and Mike (and really other CW people) in these stories. That makes me kind of crazy, too--though I especially hate it when they make Sandy or Danneel into total bitches just to hook Jared and Jensen up, too. What is up with that? I wish RPS people would just make up their villains. I mean, sometimes I can read past it, but a lot of times it totally kicks me out of a story.

And, um, sorry? about the SV stuff. I'm pretty sure I will hit a point sometime when I want to read SV again--I just haven't been there lately. You can blame it on Jensen, I guess.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

*hugs* Jensen makes a perfectly acceptable excuse for nearly anything. *G*

[lexalicious70.livejournal.com]

*Hugsyoutight*

Yes. oh my GOD, yes. Lex is everything you said. Thank you for that!

And YAY you're back!

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

*Grins* I like my Lex. *hugback*

[tabaqui]

I read *some* RPS - the bulk of it sucks balls - and yeah, Jensen as some wilting flower is really, really annoying. *Dean* as some wilting flower is even *more* annoying, and yet he's shoved into that mold waaaaaaaaay too often.
Blech.

I want my boys to be *boys*, damnit. Mine talk more than maybe 'real' boys would all the time, but....they're *boys*. Fuck romance.

:)
*smoooches you*

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

I find I really like the RPS, and yes, some of it makes the eyes water but on the whole, it's a lot of fun. I find it easier to read than I used to find SV RPS.

I'm with you on the Boys Be Boys thing. What the hell--guys whining and crying all over the place. yuck. And yeah, my guys are way more touchy feely than 'real' boys--hell, they're more touchy feely than I am. But I don't think they're about to make tea and braid each other's hair either. *G*

Also, Dean is the hottest guy on the face of the planet. Thomas may be the prettiest, and Lex is the most interesting--but Dean? He's the coolest. ;)

[tabaqui]

Ah ha ha.
YES.
:)

He really is.

[selinamoonfire.livejournal.com]

SpN really likes the non-con/hooker fic, hunh? And why do so many people make Jensen (the RPS character) into a damaged little monkey? Does he ping you like that? It's so weird, I don't get that at all. I see him being sort of sensitive under all that dickiness, but not delicate. Or romantic.

I think it's cool that fandom can have so many variations, though sometimes I wonder where the heck some things come from. I'm not into RPS so I can't say much about that, but overall? There are some fandom cliches that I just go HUH? over. People try to explain them to me, but I still don't get the reasoning. Doesn't mean that people shouldn't write them, but I don't see myself following them. Especially the SpN ones.

To me though, Lex *is* delicate. He's like this huge balancing act, a giant teetering stack of behaviors and justifications and lies that let him survive. I absolutely believe that he believes he's doing the right thing, that he's the hero, and other people see him as the villain because they have no vision. Poor little thing...now there's a woobie for you.

I've never really thought of Lex as delicate, though I do see that balance he has to maintain. I ignore the villain thing, so maybe that's why. I do see him as woobie though and having this desperate need to be a hero, even though everyone expects the very worst of him.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

Doesn't mean that people shouldn't write them, but I don't see myself following them.

oh I agree! Everyone has a different way of seeing things, and if I totally disagree, I just don't click again. I can't deal with a weepy girly Dean or Jensen, for that matter, a weepy girly any guy. But the different takes I enjoy. If everyone wrote them exactly the same it would be boring as hell.

So when I say Lex is delicate, I don't mean feminine, or fragile as such...brittle is more what I mean. To me, every movement he makes is that of a man balancing on the edge of some great height. When you watch Lex, he never makes a move that doesn't have a meaning. If he's not protecting himself, or someone else, he's very very still and contained, more so as the seasons go by. At least, that's what I project on him, and that's what I write.

Fanfic--it's like a window into our own psyches, lol!

I hate you right now!

[ender24]

non-con/hooker fic,--

you cant make that! writing something like that in your post, and then don't give any links!!!
*is scandalized*

Re: I hate you right now!

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

*clings* Sorry!!

spn_j2_bigbang, it's all there! Great ones, *amazing* ones, and ummm...okay ones! *G*

ha!

[ender24]

you are forgiven!
*peeking over to see what this strange kinky talk is all about*