Top? Bottom?

[roxy]

I sent a note to sillie82 recently, because of an interesting comment in a post of mine. I thought I should share my wondering with you,'cause I'm nice like that.

The issue was warning for top/bottom. Now me, I don’t get why it matters. I like switching the best, maybe I'm just greedy. In years past, I would have really gotten steamed about being asked to warn for who tops or bottoms. Nowadays, I sort of get that it's not my judgment to make, and for some people, it's *very* important. I'm working like hell to be more open to other folks—so I'm going to try and remember to tag for that stuff.

A question to you all.

I get how you label Top Dean(or top whoever). That means of course, that Dean is fucking various characters, not being fucked. So, how do you label it if there's non-penetrative sex, but one is clearly the aggressor, for lack of a better word? Would the person instigating the sex be the top? Does it even apply in a situation like that?

What do you think? What tags would you like to see that folks don’t use enough? What tags should people stop using? I vote "this is crap I don’t even know". I do—NONCLICKY.

Comments

[fireheart13.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I strruggle with that too. A lot of my stories have non-penetrative sex, or they switch. I have used "toppy",as phoenix1966 suggests, just to give the dynamic when I felt it fulfilled that dynamic.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

I like toppy. I think it works really well. ;)

This idea of sex so many fanfic writers have--I think sometimes the younger ones don't think it's sex unless someone's dick is in someone's ass. I like to see many different ways to have sex, it makes me think the writer *really* thought about the emotional aspects of a relationship as well as the orgasms.

[fufaraw]

Sneaking in here to nod. I agree with the increasingly narrow definition of "sex" that also seems to be growing more prevalent. It's...too definitive, and much too confining. As is the top/bottom designation. I chafe at both.

[sylsdarkplace]

Yes, I absolutelty agree. I'm uncomfortable too with this top/bottom idea of sex, which plays into heteronormative gender role ideas -- the guy with the dick in his ass is submissive. Excuse me, but that's such bullshit. Tags and trigger warnings will never be able to cover nuanced sexual relationships. Hm, but then I guess some aren't looking for that.

Top/bottom tags work fine for PWP, short kink meme fills, etc., but considering some of the fics I've written and read -- nope.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

I think the idea that the catcher is submissive is writing that doesn't take the time to explore all the possibilities in a relationship. It's okay in PWPs--there's generally no time to explore (though really good writers seem to manage it.,) I don't like it. It's too easy, it's too boring.

I think it's up to us to come up with some way to tag the kind of sex we find interesting. :)

[sylsdarkplace]

And I think that a top/bottom tag on PWP makes a lot more sense than it generally would in a multi-chapter fic. Yes, I could put top, bottom or switch tags to represent whomever is literally taking it up the ass in the fic, but that doesn't take into account actual power dynamics in the relationship or as you originally mentioned non-penetrative sex. I'm guessing that an aversion to a certain character being top has a lot more to do with the actual perception of the character than it does to sexual position.

Can we twist ourselves into pretzels in an attempt to accomodate every kink or squick or preference for readers? Sure, we can. Will we manage to cover all our bases? No. When I was writing Kennel Training -- a fic for which I had warned heavily for -- I got a PM from a reader telling me that she had been triggered by a scene. I'm not talking about "eww, gross," I'm talking full-fledged anxiety attack. But here's the thing, she told me that it wasn't something she would have anticipated being triggered by. She wasn't blaming me or complaining. She just wanted to share her experience and let me know that it was something she now realizes she needs to deal with.

I'm far more interested in tagging for serious triggers than squicks, and I know that I can't imagine all possible triggers even. Nothing turns me off much more on AO3 than dozens of tags. That being said, I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of tagging for top/bottom, if you all can come up with an agreeable and effective way of doing it.

[sillie]

I'm guessing that an aversion to a certain character being top has a lot more to do with the actual perception of the character than it does to sexual position.

For me that's not really the case, I think. I really like fic were for example Jared and Jensen are completely equal in the relationship, and also in bed up untill we get to the penetration. Then I just can't deal with top!Jensen. I've noticed that I'm gravitating more and more to fic that's describing their relationship and maybe some R rated sex. Penetration sex the way I like to read it (which means bottom!Jensen/Dean) is a bonus, but not necessary or the reason I read fic. I can't speak for others, though.

But really, tag or don't tag. Write what you like, not what others like. I'll find a way to decide if I want to read it or not.