roxy | Hmmm...

it'd be interesting to know how strongly being a cat lover correlates with going bonkers over lolcats. i love cats and am amused by lolcats. so there's one bit of data for the graph.

sam as a girl though would be a big no.

I like cats, I'm not omg, I have to have one, but we grew up having cats and the cats and I were friendly enough.

Sam as a girl. *shakes head*

oh, i had misread your post. when you said "it's just cats and dogs I don't like all that much," you meant them being anthropomorphized. gotcha! i gotta say i hate that line of greeting cards that has cats and dogs with big eyes, saying stupid things.

Yes. for goodness sakes! They're just weird and scary!

Cats just have natural cool--they don't need to be tarted up.

Oooooo! Owen icon! Niiiiiice

There are two things (well, a hell of a lot more that two, really...) that I don't understand--lol cats and Sam-is-a-girl stories.

The Sam-is-a-girl confuse me as well. I get the Sam was a boy and turned into a girl, then back into a boy.

I just am boggled by the Sam was always a girl or Dean was always a girl.

I guess it is a way to lessen the blow, instead of them incestuous and gay they are just incestuous.

I guess it is a way to lessen the blow, instead of them incestuous and gay they are just incestuous.

Maybe so, even though I would think incest is incest and there's no prettying that up.

O.o Sam as a girl??? Shorter, slighter, prettier Dean, maybe, but Sam is the bigger, taller, more powerful one, isn't he? (Doesn't actually watch Supernatural though all the slash stories are going to lure me in eventually.) Um, Nnnnnnnoooooo... >.>

As for cats, I love them and I hate them. I love the purrs and the fur, but the freaky behavior and claws bug the heck out of me. Helps that my hubby hates them when people ask why I don't have any. ^_~

I guess the thing with me is, I don't like turning the boys into girls. They're actually pretty well divided, I always think of Dean as being the stronger one though, mentally as well as physically. In my mind Sam is tall, skinny and emo. But not a girl, for god's sake.

Cats are cool, but too high maintenance for someone like me. And why can't those cats just speak English?

Lolcats baffles me, honestly. I don't have a cat, though, so....

However, I love girl!Sam stories. Really, I love all the genderswap stuff in the SPN-verse for reasons I cannot explain. I mean, I like both Sam and Dean as boys, don't get me wrong--I love them lots and lots as the very hot men that they are, but I can also enjoy either (or both) of them as girls. Actually, the first Wincest I could actually take, for some reason, were

musesfool's girl!Sam stories. If it helps, she has said that her girl!Sam is played by Katee Sackhoff (the girl in my icon, if you don't watch BSG), and she likes girl!Sam because she thinks Dean is more likely to be emotionally open when Sam is a girl v. Sam as a boy. (She generally writes Sam-has-always-been-a-girl stories, not genderswap). I think I enjoy her stories mainly because (a) she is a DAMN good writer and (b)I kind of like getting to have het stories without breaking up my slash OTP. Because I *love* how much Dean loves the ladies, actually--it's one of my favorite things about SPN. And there are so many really good het writers in that fandom it has really reignited my interest in het stories.

I also like Dean-as-a-girl stories (though usually I prefer him to temporarily be turned into a girl), because you know he'd have a lot of fun that way. Also? I think Dean would make an absolutely gorgeous girl, especially if you look at pictures from when he was a teen:

And, um. Possibly I have given this WAY too much thought. Yeah. But you asked!

That's exactly the kind of response I wanted! It's interesting, it really is, Even if I'm gagging just a wee bit! No, I think the reason I don't like the idea of it says a lot more about me, and my huge dissatisfaction with being female in my youth. I don't mind the temporary switches that much--I've read a few in SV but only in that fandom. I just can't see Sam doing more than freaking and I cant see Dean doing more than sitting around with his own hands up his skirt, so...also, I can barely look at pics of Very Young Jensen. I just find him very creepy and too self-aware. Now, that he has a few years on him, he's incredibly gorgeous!

Hmmmm. SpN brings out my issues, lol!

Oh, I can definitely see where you're coming from. I think if I had encountered all the genderswap stuff in the abstract, or via bad writers, I would be pretty wtf about it too. (It probably helps that I came into the fandom via fic rather than via the show--I always thought the boys were pretty, but it wasn't until I had read a TON of fic that I could really get into the show itself. So maybe I just didn't have as strong an attachment to to guys as we see them onscreen?)

And I'm kind of having a het renaissance, myself, so....I mean, there is a fair amount of good Sam/Jess, or Sam/Jess/Dean (which I really do love, but they're hard to find, given that she's dead and all), and some good crossovers (like I love Dean/Faith)--but really I like the boys best with each other. Even if one (or both) is a girl at the time.

It's interesting how the way you come into the fandom effects your perception. Unlike SV, I was hooked like a fish on SpN before I really got into the fic, and I'm still kind of on and off with SpN fic now. I've never read bad genderswap, I've never read good genderswap--like Mpreg, it's something I avoid--like the Boys getting married, the Boys dressing like girls, the Boys crying way too much...lots of stuff like that. Which of course, I've written in SV--all of it except the GSwap.

So maybe I just didn't have as strong an attachment to to guys as we see them onscreen?)

I think that's why I'm into AUs so much? Because I loved SV fic, loved it to death, loved the characters and had *no* idea what they looked like for the longest time. Not being hung up on the show does free you up to enjoy vastly different takes on the characters, yes?

You know...I can feel the curiosity building. Oh well, I'll just blame you! *GRIN*

If you're really curious, I'm pretty sure I have a genderswap tag in my delicious recs, which are here: del.icio.us/norwich36 (Actually my favorite one isn't genderswap per se--it's the lyra wing story where a succubus steals Sam's dick, and Dean just gets really, really curious. It's honestly one of the hottest things ever, imho). Of course, I also have many many plain old Sam/Dean as boys links there, too.

Hunh! I might check it out, thanks so much. I'm not sure if I will be *that* curious, but I've done a lot of things over the last few years I swore I'd never do. ;)

Oh, p.s., I'm replying here to a lot of comments downthread that I think are making huge generalizations based on lack of knowledge: LOTS of the folks writing genderswap and/or Winsister fic ALSO write slash. In fact, a lot of them also write Sam/Dean as boys--they just also enjoy sometimes writing them as girls. So this idea that genderswap is all about hating slash or fear of gaysex? Is pretty damn misinformed. [And frankly, I find a lot more fear of hetsex than fear of gay sex in SPN fandom...but that's a whole different issue].

I didn't want to pick fights with people I don't know in your journal, so I'm just putting it here for the record.

So this idea that genderswap is all about hating slash or fear of gaysex? Is pretty damn misinformed. [And frankly, I find a lot more fear of hetsex than fear of gay sex in SPN fandom...but that's a whole different issue].

Oh my dear, you know that's going to pop up. I am often very hesitant about voicing a strong opinion because in a lot of cases it's taken for open season on whatever the subject is, but you know me. You know I really want to know what makes it good--or bad--for a person.

I can't stand stories where they change the character's sex in the middle. I also abhor mpreg. *shudders* I don't think I've ever read one, and I don't intend to, either. I like my guys, guys, and my gals, gals. Somehow cross-dressing is okay -- to a certain degree. *shrug* Cwazy people. . . *G* To each his own, though. I won't read them, but I certainly don't care if others do. *rubs hands gleefully* More hot man lovin' for me!!

like my guys, guys, and my gals, gals.
Yes, yes!

I wrote an m-preg once, as support for my friend, but I don't read them, don't like them in general. Men should be men. I'm not wild about cross-dressing, even though a fic or two has touched on it.

To each his own, for sure---what a person reads or likes has no bearing whatsoever on whether I can get along with them--in fact, it can be a lot of fun being with people who have very different likes and dislikes. :)

Sammy is a girl fic?

Oh. Hells. NAH. Not that I feel strongly about it or anything. *g*

I mean, where's the right in that?

LOL!!

I enjoy your reasoned and thoughtful response--*snorfle*

You don't like lol cats? :( You can no haz cheezburger.

I can read a limited amount of Lex-in-a-skirt

*giggles madly* Orly? That sounds like a challenge.

Please for god's sake, no Lex in a skirt talking to one of Those Cats.

Wait a minute...you're the one who made me love mad tentacle sex...Hmmm....

I hadn't thought of him talking to an lol cat. Hmm...maybe I should.

But perhaps Lex in a skirt will happen some time. And speaking of tenacles, hot off the presses: http://helioshyperion.livejournal.com/10569.html

'So-and-so is really/seekritly a girl' stories (not including generswap for humor purposes) always seem to me to be either:

1. self-insert or mary sue
2. writing the popular otp without having to touch teh ghey

In case 1, the girlified character is OOC and might as well be an OC. In case 2.. if they're IC, girlification doesn't add anything to the story so what the hell's the point? So I just don't read them at all. :p

1. self-insert or mary sue
2. writing the popular otp without having to touch teh ghey

Well, I'm not sure--maybe self-insert, but I'm thinking it'd be hard to get away with it! Most of the writers I see doing it I know are good writers--some have come from other fandoms, BuffY I think, and those writers were always pretty wild. SV is almost conservative compared to SpN or Buffy, or from what I understand--SGA, lol!

I really suspect it's what's been said before--maybe the incest seems not quite as bad if it's not boys? And still, and most importantly in my mind is Sam=dorky looking girl.

I don't like weird pics of animals deformed. It creeps me out.

I don't understand turning boys into girls and girls into boys unless there's some mystical reason (and plot centric reason) for it. Just making Sam into Dean's sister from the beginning of the series is odd. Maybe the Sam as a girl stories come from all those comments Dean's made about Sam being emo and calling him Samantha occasionally. Or the writers can handle the idea of Wincest but not slash.

Me either--but those cat ones just have the weird spelling and 'humorous' comments that I have to be a lot younger to enjoy and yet--are so insidious that they pop up in my conversations...grrrr.

Sam as a girl is a mystery to me. I'm mostly opposed on the grounds I prefer doinkies to woo-woos in my stories. (those would be the scientific terms for genitalia)

LOL Great phrases for genitalia. Someone should write pron using them. ;)

I don't understand fic that changes major elements of the story. Like changing boys into girls or taking away major characteristics that make the story work or make the characters who they are. But some people must like it.

I can read a limited amount of Lex-in-a-skirt,

I see you're not saying anything about looking at pictures of Lex in a skirt and corset and high heals, torturing Clark, eh? ;)

I lurves lol cats. *grins* Because I look at mine and now I know what he's thinking. lol What about bunnies? *grins*

I said a *limited*! Besides, come on--you'd have to be made of stone not to find that hot!! LOL!

No!! No bunnies! But there was one this morning with a grill that made me laugh out loud. And a cardinal LOLthing once that made me almost pee myself. "One day...I will be Pope." Omg, now *that* was funny!!

Yeah... that picture of Clark and Lex is VERY hot. ;D

But... look - it's Lexie bunny looking at pictures of Clarkie bunny! hehehehe

*not* looking.....*covers eyes* nope nope nope.

I clearly can't argue for SPN stories, but I think that making a character like, say, Lex, be a girl from the start, is a way to explore a strong female character (which, for example, Smallville lacks) and the possibilities of a woman dealing with the kinds of situations that Lex has to deal with. It's done in mainstream writing, movies and TV all the time, I don't see why Fanfic should not touch the subject.

Also, transgendered issues won't go away just because we don't write about them, and they're downright interesting to explore as well.

When I write a male character into female, I'm not trying to eek away from gay issues, as has been suggested. It's just an area to be explored. I like to write gay pairings more often than not myself. The more penises, the better.

MPreg, also mentioned in above comments, fascinates me. ALSO explored in mainstream medium (as seen here http://pregnantmen.net/sightings/index.html), deals with the unconventional and how characters deal with it, rather than expelling a baby out of your ass, or wherever the author may decide is gonna be the exit point.

To me, it's all about personal interactions, reactions and the coping, which I hope shows in my stories!

:D

When I write a male character into female, I'm not trying to eek away from gay issues, as has been suggested. It's just an area to be explored

See? This is why I like to ask these kind of questions from time to time. I have to say, it didn't occur to me that there were valid reasons for writing the males as females. My responses were flippant because that's my default mode. But I can understand that exploring the character in different ways is interesting, fun and maybe even enlightening! I mentioned before my issues with being a girl--mostly a generational thing, I think--that colors my perception of these stories. But, the impulse to write those types of fics probably comes from the same place I trot out these AUs of mine. The Big What If. *G*

Aaaand you know my stand on M-pregs. Few, far between, and only reading those by people I love, no matter how logical the point you make.

However I stand firm on my belief that Sam=Big Ugly Girl.

Just like Clark or Bruce. Lex, we *know* could get away with it!

:P

LOL! Okay, we do have proof that Lex would look kind of cute as a girl. :)

Although...

Hee! Stop me!!

LOL!!!!! OMG--not the Bale! Noooo!!!

Hee! You never watched Velvet Goldmine? He has sex with Ewan 'Obi-Wan' McGregor on a rooftop!

:D

Oh Roxy, you'd adore Velvet Goldmine! It's a fictionalised story about David Bowie. Jonathan Rhys-Meyers plays Brian Slade (the Bowie-alike), Ewan McGregor plays Curt Wild (a combination of Iggy Pop and Lou Reed though he looks like a less skinny Iggy) and the Bale plays a reporter trying to find out what happened to Brian Slade. Plus Toni Collette plays the Angela Bowie character and she's amazing. There's also a very pretty man named Micko Westmoreland who plays the character I can't remember dammit and Emily Woof as Brian's secretary and Eddie Izzard as Brian's manager and it's a really trippy and interesting movie and there's boykissing all over the place and more boysexing than Torchwood!

And yet they DENY their LUV!!!!!

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/5226340.html

AWWWWWWW!!! All he wants is for Supes to really notice him. *siiiigh*

And I read science fiction and fantasy, so it's not such a stretch for me, I guess.

Bleeeeergh. I don't get the Sam/Dean was always a girl stuff, either. I like the *boys*. That's what the show is about and that's what i *like*. If you make Sam or Dean born a girl....everything changes! Why not just write original fic! I just don't get it.

If you want girl!fic, pic a *girl* to write about.

Also, i hate it when one of the boys is turned into a girl and s/he is all *tiny* and *pretty* and has a *huge rack* and immediately goes to get makeup and skirts and tampons and a Venus razor.
*gag gag gag*

Gimme a break. If Sam or Dean were suddenly female they would be: six-foot females with short hair and small breasts because, hello - not like either of those boys has a lot of extra mass to move around into *gigantic breasts*!!

/rant.

Sorry.
:)

I luff Lolcats. My cats have expressions on their faces a lot of the times that just make you go o.0 and i love it when someone has a clever caption for it.
:)

*uses cat icon in celebration*
*luffs you muchly*

Also, i hate it when one of the boys is turned into a girl and s/he is all *tiny* and *pretty* and has a *huge rack* and immediately goes to get makeup and skirts and tampons and a Venus razor.
*gag gag gag*

Aaah, that would just be bad writing, because if you're going to switch up your character, it better at least sound logical--and look logical. Yes, they'd be huge women, big muscular broads, unless we just poof it all away with magic? On the other hand, reading Norwich and Hero's responses, I do get the impulse. I always want to know what would happen if the characters had completely different backgrounds, different circumstances in their lives. It's just for me, there's got to be dick with that shake. *what?*

I luff Lolcats.

Um. yeah. Ya'll just go on enjoying yer funny cat pictures.

*you know I love you like OMG!*

I kinda don't even get the 'what if they didn't hunt ghosts/demons/monters?' thing. I mean...that's what's so *cool*!! Maybe...they didn't grow up that way but they fall into it or something, but i *like* the supernatural element!

*is very adamant*
:)
*smishes you*

I know you do! It makes me giddy!
:)

Honestly, I have to say, without the monster/supernatural element, it's not anywhere near as fun. That's part of what gets me, makes me happy when I read or write it. If they're not fearless monster killers, than what are they? A couple of cute guys. *shrug*

I'm at the 5000 word mark with my super slow story, but hey--no pressure, no worry! *G*

Exactly. And cute guys are a dime a dozen.

*story!!*
:)

What I don't see very often is girl characters made into guys. Think Chloe as Chole or Lana as Larry (I actually have done a few parodies with Larry Lang but nothing serious).

I like lolcats though I also have to confess that the only pets I have had are fish so I probably don't recognize cat dignity.

Hmmm...

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tell me that boy makes a girl *points at icon*

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tell me that boy makes a girl points at icon

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